Today's topic is an all-inclusive journey onboard the SeaDream Yacht Club ship SeaDream II with my guest travel writer Judi Cuervo. Learn about a very different kind of Caribbean cruise experience in intimate luxury and personalized service beyond what large ship lines offer.
Hello and welcome back to CruiseCompete's Cruise Podcast, where we share tips, ideas, and inspiration to help make your next cruise a fantastic experience. I'm your host Bob Levinstein. Today's topic is a different type of Caribbean cruise than most of our listeners may be familiar with; a sailing on the ultra luxury mega yacht SeaDream II. My guest today is Ms. Judi C uervo, a freelance c ruise writer w ho hss travel on more cruises than she can count . Among other publications, you ca n f ind her articles and experiences on AllThingsCruise.com We'll be right back with Judy right after this.:
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Welcome back. My guest today is Ms. Judi Cuervo, who's been a freelance cruise writer for more than 20 years. Judy has recently returned from a seven life cruise aboard the luxury yacht SeaDream II. Judy, welcome to the program.:
Thank you so much for having me. Sailing on SeaDream is a very different experience from sailing on a mega ship: fewer people, casual atmosphere, very personalized service. How would you summarize the overall experience and compare it to more mainstream cruises? Well, you really have to set aside your concept of a cruise entirely. What it's defined as these days. There are no crowds, no lines. Even embarkation is just walking up the gangway and being greeted by the captain. See dream when it's sold out can accommodate 112 passengers. That's like the capacity of a big ship's life boat for God's sake . So , uh , it's, it's a totally different animal.Speaker 1:
Um, it , the intimate experience fosters friendships very, very quickly. Uh , like compare it from , uh , a big city versus a small towns . For example. Um, it's an Island . Yeah, it's an all inclusive sailing, which means no bar bill at the end of the sailing, no paying for bottled water. Nonsense, no restaurant charges, even gratuities are included. But that's really just sort of scratching the surface. The greatest God, the greatest difference. I didn't know where to begin. The service is extraordinary, but I don't know where they find these guys. I mean they were like in their 20s. They're all so professional and so personable and they go beyond like they might overhear you say something like, you really wish you could try just a bit of some dish on the menu even though you've ordered something different and boom, it'll appear before you. You might be in the hot tub and a bar way drill. Come by with a glass of champagne and say this old completes a picture. They just totally dedicated to service and the dining, I can't even compare it to most cruise ships. I'd compare it to like the finest restaurants I've ever been to at sea. And then of course there are the amazing things that she dreamed can pull off since it's such a small ship. And I'm not just talking about going to more exclusive ports where the big ships can't, can't go in. Um, but they have the sleeping under the stars, champagne and caviar splash the water sports platform, and there's no additional charge for any of it. So let's start out with the ship itself. Tell me a little bit about, okay. Mega ships these days , whether they'd like more than a hundred thousand gross tons. See dream. Um , I'm sorry. Yeah , you're right . Um, see , dream is 4,333 gross tons. So you won't be seeing any water slides or racetracks . So a rollercoaster in fact see dream from the outside. It just looks like a beautiful yard . It's like something you would lust after in the Harbor. And the around Saint Barts or nice or any Harbor around the world, yacht Harbor around the world. But in once on board you won't find neon and glitz and it feels like a home, a very beautiful home. Um, as far as the public rooms, you have the salon, which is a circular lounge, cocktail hours, maybe a film in the evening, top of the yacht, which is my favorite bar at sea . It's , it's sort of the social heart of the yacht . Open air. Imagine being there when you're sailing from a Caribbean Island. Maybe it's sunset bar, barstools tables, the library I want in my apartment. If it could say it's well-stocked. Two computers with free internet access, plush couches, easy chairs. And it's, it's right near the piano bars. So peeping off people will often flow into the library with the drinks for conversation. The piano bar, it's a very misleading name. It sounds so staid and quiet. Oh my God, that is like party central most nights. You know, you might hear sweet Caroline if you have too many times, but, but pianos can play anything and I hate to admit it, but I even took the microphone on the last cruise and totally mortified myself. Um, then they have , um, the dining that top of the yacht is a fabulous outdoor restaurant. They have breakfast, lunch and dinner. Their tables are set. There's no cutlery wrapped in a paper napkin for breakfast. You'll find a full man for well breakfast, lunch and dinner. It's a full menu supplemented by a small buffet for breakfast and lunch. And like for breakfast they'll have homemade yogurts , cereals, breads, this thing called the power shot, which is like carrot juice with vegetables and ginger. I always got extra ginger for the kick lunches, the same full menu set tables, small buffet, which usually has like really sweet crab legs on sun , somedays huge New Zealand mus muscles , all sorts of salad . But again, it's just an opener for a real full menu. And the tables are set like a real restaurant. Um, the, your favorite meals on board , the favorite meals. Oh God. As lobster Chateau Brennan . Dos . So Buco they had a Joe over soul , which I don't know the word for this , like they delayed it and put the scale, like the bones of it were part of the presentation. It's hard to describe, but it was just so beautiful. Pastas , I love the pastas . There's like no boiled up run Sony here. Um, Yogi , Oh my God. They had an Yogi that was served in a fried cheese basket and you won't give wonder why I have to go to the gym on the ship every morning and the gym is small. Um, but I do the elliptical. There's one elliptical and like, what is it, four treadmills, free weights. Um, and I would go every morning and nobody was ever on that elliptical. In fact, there were only like two, I don't think more than two people were there when I went, which I find amazing with the food, but I'm just going back to the food for a second. I ordered mushroom soup, which, you know, whatever everybody else was having three courses. So I got the soup. My God, this thing like changed my life. It was like even the appetizers are just so amazing. I mean the aroma of that soup that tastes, that earthy warming. And I remember saying to the friend I traveled with, I said, I want to wash my hair in this soup . And I tested the chefs so much or they finally gave me the recipe probably just to get rid of me. And that includes truffles . So I won't be making that anytime soon. But , um, the other thing about the food though is they have a very good selection of plant-based and vegan dishes. And I'm not vegan as you could probably tell from the Chateau Brianne that I mentioned. Um, but I was tempted by a lot of the dishes. Lentil Shepherd's pie. That sounds wonderful. Vegan chocolate mousse cake. There were really, there was one cruise I went on with she dream where there was a very strict vegan onboard and she was delighted with the options. It's very inventive stuff. Um , you know, it's not boring food. They do, they have a selection of every night, which is a little less extravagant. If you, you know, sometimes you were on a cruise and you're like sick of the elaborate every single night and you just want like a chicken breast or something and you could certainly get that. And then I don't, don't get me started on the desserts. They have this preservatives extravaganza that just, it's like half a city block of different desserts that look beautiful and are beautiful. And I managed to only have the creme per leg, which was worth it. So Jim , based on the fact that it was completely empty, I think that , Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I have noticed one of the funny things, if you're on one of the mega ships, if you go to the gym on like the first morning, day four or five, yeah. You just say, forget it. It's hopeless. I'll do it with what I get home. So why don't you , and it was pretty impressive, impressive bartenders on board as well. This not only bartenders, everybody , um, the entire staff is just phenomenal. But , uh, the, I remember this one, one bartender , Byron , um, he, I was on last Christmas and he had just started and he was such a shy little boy and the last night, you know how you dress very casual the last night too, cause you're probably going to be going home wearing the same outfit I wore jeans and a Marvel tee shirt . Cause then my nine to five existence, I work with Marvel and he comes over to me and he says, Oh ma'am, I love that t-shirt. I've been a Marvel fan since I was a little boy and we were talking a short conversation. I go on last week and I see him and he's like the Marvel woman. It's so good to have you. How did he remember this? It was amazing, but he's not shy anymore because he and a fellow bartender did it like a Tom cruise in cocktail performance, juggling shakers and martini glasses and all sorts of stuff. So , uh , he fits in beautifully. He really does. But it's amazing how they remember you. It really is. Once we get the passenger's like on board . Well the one is , this is, this is the high end cruise experience. Um, but nobody is snooty. Maybe. Maybe you have to be to one sale with only 112 people. But everybody is so welcoming and everything. Mostly it's couples. It can be a very romantic cruise. Um, some families I went with one of my high school girlfriends , um, I , and I've never done it, but I could easily sell sea dream alone because it's, you get on board and immediately you meet people. Um, this is , it was primarily Americans. Couple of people from the UK, a lovely couple from Bermuda, Netherlands all over the place. But probably my favorite group of passengers were 12 Norwegians who were traveling together and nobody parties like no regions . That's like, they're the first ones up and the last ones to go to bed, I don't know where they feed them over there. And it's funny because a few of the Norwegians at sales with me four years before and half the cruise was over before we realize that. Um, and there were others that say dream fans are a fiercely dedicated bunch and it does happen where you see people who you've met on previous cruises. I've celled Hadrian pretty much since they first , um , were launched in, they was launched in 2001. I think my first cruise was 2002 and I'd probably be been on like eight times or something, maybe nine times. The one thing though that I should point out is it's really not suitable for children. There aren't any children's programs. I have seen kids on board and they were the best behaved children in all the world. But I , I don't think I would recommend it for kids. No , it makes sense. Yeah. So see , dreams is going to carry a somewhat higher price tag than a comparable length. So large ship cruise, there's also a great deal more that's included. So how does the overall , um, economics work out? By the time you , uh , add up everything at the end, obviously you're not having a lot of additional costs on speed dream , uh , for excursions and things. You know, it's interesting. Four years ago when I first started sailing with my friend from high school. Um , prior to that I sailed with my husband. My husband passed away for nappy long ago . Yeah. And they still remember him, which is really sort of mind blowing. Um, yeah. Oh absolutely. But until I started sailing with Carol , the friend I went with this time, I would have said, the first thing you should do is start by figuring out what your typical bar bill is. Because of course that's the biggest, the biggest cost on a, on a traditional cruise dad or a beverage package or whatever. And I'm on the other shed strings of what, like $15 each or something. So if you have a margarita, two or two, when the sun cocktails before dinner, wine with dinner, maybe a couple of after dinner drinks that you know how y'all are on vacation . Sometimes that all adds up. But the thing with Carol is she doesn't drink like at all and she still feels she dream considering the service, the cuisine, the activities is well worth the fair . And I think she's right. There's something to be said for paying your passage upfront, knowing that shit , the only extra charges you'll have on seed dream are gift shop purchases, spa if you order something of the fine wines from a special menu , um, and short excursions . So , uh , some of those included though, well, they, if chief dream has , uh , you know, rich selection of typical short excursions where you pay extra for them in every port, but they also, very often we'll have like in uh , in [inaudible] kids we tendered into kind of rumble a beach club and the chairs were free renting the chair for the seat dream passengers, you know, so that was, that could be your day if you wanted to do a tour of the Island or whatever, that would be extra. That would be one of their, their optional assured sturgeons . But where they also offer is something called shoreside actives , I think the term is, and the club direct . Oh yeah . Okay. I knew I was going to forget a lot of stuff. Anyway , they have a whole bunch of mountain bikes onboard that guests can take out at no charge and explore on their own. But for the short side active, some of them were bike rides led by the club director and you just top a bike and he'll point out things and you get to explore the Island because he knows it so well. So he's the perfect person to uh , to direct everybody. No , no, that's included as is if you take the bike out and explore on your own, so , and you'd expect to spend, what about , uh , about five grand roughly for right ? It depends. I tell you November is a fantastic time to go. I think. I think the cost is in the 3000. And the interesting thing is that the , the, the suites are all identical as far as size other than like the Admiral suite or the real high rent district, as I call it. Um , they're all 195 square feet. And I'm sorry, that's quite large. Yeah. But now what makes people I'm gassed in this day and age is there's no balconies now on a big ship. If you don't have a balcony, we're talking like a commute to get to the open air. You know, elevators are involved, lots of staircases, this and that on seed drain . You're never more than a few steps away from the open air. And I'm a very early riser, so I would go up to the top of the Akbar where they would have the continental breakfast before regular breakfast starts, have my coffee in solitude, which was wonderful. And that's another good thing about sea dream. You can find places of solitude if you like. Um, and then go to the gym. So I, I didn't need a balcony. I do not miss a balcony on seed green whatsoever. So there are water force included too , right? There is a sports platform that is so cool. You just sign up, you go down there and you sign up and they have jet skis, which should go, go soaring across the water on. And they do water skiing. They have a Zodiac, which is like an inflatable , um, inflatable motorboat sort of thing. And you just go out and you can water ski. They have kayaks, they have all kinds of water toys and again that is also included as well. Short excursions might be, you know, go where you don't exactly, exactly. Travel anywhere to get through it. Yeah . Sometimes. Sometimes you have limited by the Island there . Act like some islands will not permit motorized order sports, but we had them, I think it was three days we had the motorized water sports and you could even just, if you wanted to swim off the platform, just dive in from the platform. And one of the coolest stories I ever heard, and I've never experienced it myself, but on their Atlantic crossing, when they come over from Europe for the Caribbean season, a couple of years, it was so calm that the captain anchored and opened the spatch a sports platform in the middle of the ocean. How cool would that be? Wow. So yeah, it's a lot. I tell you, you do say wow, a lot from the sea dream experience as well, you know, and there's no big production shows and there's no Vegas casino and there's no eating and you're not going to find out what are the evenings of worship like. Okay . Um , it starts with cocktail hour in the, in the salon and they will have drink service of course, and a small buffet, which , and usually supplemented by passed hors d'oeuvres, like fried shrimp or , or beef on skewers and, and , uh , captain's cocktail or the welcome party was a big tin of caviar. Um, and it's just, you know, which the mingling, that comradery and all that. And then the club director will give an overview of what's going on the following day. And then when the spirit moves people to go to dinner, they, they, you know, go to dinner. And that, that of course is so fantastic that that's an important part of , of the whole experience. And then open seating, open seating, open time. Um, and then sometimes there'll be a disco party at the top of the yard or there'll be a party at the pool or there's that piano bar, which we love. Um, and then there, this might be a good time to talk about sleeping under the stars. Um, on God, I forget which deck, but the same deck is top of the yacht beneath the stack. There are 10 on either side, Portant , starboard, 10 Balinese sun beds , which people during the day, if they want a quiet place to go, we'll go up there and read or just Sunday or whatever. And also in the , uh, the forward part of the ship, there's one massive Balinese Sunday. Well, you can, you can reserve a sun bed . And what they do is you can reserve it for sleeping out on just stars. And what they do is they dress this bed in a fitted sheet , uh , do VA pillows with pillow cases and it becomes like a real bed. It looks like a real bed. It feels like a real bed. So , uh, and people can sleep out all night. I have never made it all night. I am a very light sleeper. Now. This last cruise we were on, me and my friend did it. And in the middle of the night I felt like I was getting a massage or something and I feel like somebody patting me all over what had happened. I mean, they took these sheets tight. Well not Judy, you know, while I'm kicking off the , you know, my feet have to be out and the wind picks up. So I am now in a bunch of below in sales. It was so funny. So I went back about three in the morning. I'm passing somebody who was, who was polishing the staircase, brass , you know, and everything, but Oh, I almost forgot this. Um , when you board the ship, they give you a pair of sea dream pajamas, saw beautiful , um, like drawstring pants and like a Henley top. And they're embroidered with the [inaudible] logo as well as your name. So they give you that to sleep out under the stars. But anyway, but my friend made it all night and other people did too. But it was because I untucked those sheets that I was in the billowing sails . So it was very funny. But it's gorgeous. I mean, you're laying , you're laying there. Sometimes you see shooting stars or it was stars and the clouds and the moon. It is, it is something, you can't do that on a mega ship. You just can, can you, can you describe just for listeners who might not know exactly what a Balinese Sunday is ? It is a, it is a deck, not a deck chair. They're of built in , um, in on the both sides of a stack. And they're, they're basically sun beds , but the mattress is probably about 18 inches thick and the back can be adjusted. So of course they put it flat when they make up the bed and they look like actual mattresses. So when they make up the bed, it looks like it's a bed out under the stars. It's wonderful. Yeah, it really is. It really is just one of many of see dreams, amazing experiences. Well , you mentioned that the smallest ship gives you access to ports that are too small for mega ships. Your first stop was the in Tortola ? Yeah, well Tortola really wasn't my favorite. It was a substitute for Virgin Gorda because we had a skip , um, skip it because of the rough seas and tendering wouldn't have been safe. It was a Sunday. Most everything was closed. We ended up going back to the ship, which is never a bad thing when you're on seed dream and that day the sports platform was open. So, you know, we could do that. And again, the, the ambiance is so wonderful when you were on board a few years ago, I was on seed dream. I met a couple who never left the ship. So I would come back from the beach, all Sandy and sunburned and there'd be , they're fresh as daisies with a cool drink in front of them. And I remember what I said to the guys that you still haven't gotten off the ship and he goes fifth day in captivity with a big smile on his face. So really there were worse things than spending the day. Um, they are intelligent , didn't really throw me. Um, and it's, you know, I didn't go to the beach or anything like that, but uh , but it was a substitute for Virgin Gorda, which is still recovering from the hurricane. Although the bass , I was there last year and they are pristine. It's, it's wonderful there . So that was a little bit of a disappointment. But safety always comes first on, on every ship. So yeah, you don't call, you don't question the captain. So you ended up spending a few days in st Barts. You started out at the beach that we doctrine saints . We actually got extra time in st Barts because of the rough seas . We were able, we had to skip and we let as well, but you know, when people were a little disappointed with that. But then when we heard we were getting to st Barts a day early, it's like woo . You know. So there was, there was really no serious disappointment when they said that. And at st Barts we have two days. So we figured we do the beach the first day we do shopping. The second, first day we went to shell beach, which is walking distance from where they tender. So we walked there and shell beach is very appropriately named. It is all shells and we are talking jagged, you know, like piercing shells that you can't walk on with us . So we just said, Oh this is impossible. So we got attacking. We went to Eden rock, which is a beautiful, beautiful beach. So we stayed there that day. You know, we passed that airport when we've taken the taxi, a plane was coming in, it looked like it was about 20 feet above the taxi, which was a scary moment. But you know, it was restorative fun to see. So we spent the whole day there, which was beautiful. And then the following day we went shopping and there is, and you know shopping, let's put it this way, I went into a grocery store once just to check out the prices. Saint Barts is like crazy expensive. I saw a little container of cashew nuts for 38 euros and I'm like, Oh no , no , no . So anyway, they have all the big designers, blah, blah, blah. Dolce and Gabbana, Bulgaria , et cetera , et cetera . And uh, so there is one story ever since I first went to st Barts . I go there and the woman remembers like every one of her customers. So I walk in, I, the last time I was there was last December and she's like, welcome, welcome, mr . and you know what, over the years I thought it was sort of a sales scam. I'm very suspicious of people. Um, and I feel like, okay, maybe she knows ships are in, you know, when it's very exclusive ships, they call it Saint Barts . So she just assumes these people have been there before. And she said to me, how have you been liking the bag you bought last year? You bought the Brown woven one ? And I'm like, okay . So that theory is shot. She really does remember me, but the name of the store is LA . Ronda fell and they have beautiful quality leather bags and shoes. And then they have a men's store with these gorgeous linen shirts and they're for Saint Barts . They are very reasonable. My bag was I think 225 euros, which in st Barts, I mean the , you know, the cashew nuts are probably about 225 or some you get a bigger, I don't think they were bad filler with cashew nuts. No . So , uh, so I love that store, but anywhere else I sort of addressed in a window, a cotton shift that really was nice. 510 euros . I'm like, I don't think so. So uh, yeah, it's good aspirational shopping or window shopping, but no thank you. Gonna really buy anything unless you own one of the opposite or in the Harbor. And then maybe we could talk a little better why the more the folks want to stay on the yard . Yeah . Then after that you told us about, and then your last step , was that a fun dike , that party , the beach party, this, you know, I kept saying, I don't even like revealing the details on board to first timers because it is such an incredible experience. Your spawn. Dyke is a , an absolutely beautiful port at white powder sand beach and the, they , they arrange deck chairs with the sea dream towel, this and that and it's their beach barbecue, which sounds, you know, that's like a beach barbecue. Oh no, no, no. First you go out there in the Zodiac, which is that inflatable , um, whatever a motorboat and you sell out that and that in itself is a lot of fun. So you sail out there and you know, it's , it's a beautiful beach so everybody is just waiting in the surf and this and that. Of course the bartenders greet you as you get out of the Zodiac with either painkillers, which is a drink that was invented and you know, spun Dyke at a bar called the soggy dollar, which is about like a block away from the private section. We do the beach party and, and or champagne, this and that. And they are like to refill the guests . Champagne glasses as the, as the guests are waiting in the surf, they walk out full uniforms, walk out with the champagne glasses and are refilling it there . They're like, drench . That's so this is going on. And if they stopped at that, it would be surreal. You know, the, the service in the water and everything while you're just waiting there. And they were, they were like noodles and floats and stuff. If you don't want to really exert yourself and just float around. And then there's, they are arranging caviar on a surfboard . This is so you've have really have to see it to really grasp the whole thing and all, you know, chopped onions and, and sour cream and know the egg and everything. And they go into the water with this surfboard, the chef and hotel manager of behind it and they are serving on Blaney's caviar and you are in the water with your bathing suit, just taking the bleeding. He stayed in your , your caviar and everything. Then the [inaudible] comes out with a bottle of champagne. He shakes it up, starts spraying it all over the place. Other waiters join them. And again, this is like chest deep in the water, just refilling the Shah is, you know, this serene, quiet beach just becomes this rock as party . It is. Fantastic. And then, and it seems like that 10 , a caviar goes on forever, but then the barbecue, you know, that starts up and you smell the aromas of the food and it's chicken and pork, ribs and , and fish and everything. A full beach barbecue. Um, they , they actually , um , constructed like a , you know, the like , uh , what do you call it ? Not a pavilion, but it's, it's a covering in case it rains, which I've never been at the beach party when the rains and you have a full barbecue lunch. Now some of the more hearty people like the Norwegians afterwards go down to soggy dollar and keep drinking. I know my limit. So I , I just went back on, on the Zodiac, which that's real. Oh , let me tell you what Zodiac story , um, which has nothing to do with, we're talking about, this is what I said, that I'm probably going to be all over the map, but it's just, to me it was, it was a really nice, nice Keidrian memory. Um, early on I was on sea dream, probably like 2003, there was a woman with her daughter. And the reason they were doing this cruise is to go into Capri , um, because they, the woman had lost her husband a couple of months before and they had gone on their honeymoon, took a praise . So she really wanted to see it again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So the water was really choppy and we were, I was behind this woman and her daughter getting on the tender and she couldn't do it. She was scared. She just, you know, she was afraid of it. And then she starts crying. About two minutes later, the activities director comes up, takes it by the arm and said, we're taking you by the Zodiac, which is so easy to get in. You walk from the sports platform, Intuit you one step. And that's what they did. So , uh, yeah , when I said Zodiac, I remember that story. And it's just such a sea dream story. I think it just illustrates the service, the, you know, they just totally go out of their way to make sure everybody is happy and you know, and then they're very good like that. So we're going to absolutely incredible experience. Um, God just, just go mean really. If you love to be at sea , but you're , you know, you , you just start getting stressed over, like being unable to find a [inaudible] deck chair or you know, you go to the buffet and there's no to sit that's not near as like screaming kids. Um, if you don't need the elaborate production shows or a five page daily program that's filled with activities that must have, let's face it, most of us never do. Um, and you want an experience that's very elusive and can be total total fun or total relaxation. It's really up to you. Um, the , the, the things that they do, the dish , so special, the experiences and it , I think it would be perfect for like a honeymoon or, or an anniversary or a milestone birthday. I mean, I think it's good no matter what, but I mean, if you want to try something different and something really special , um , they even do charters. I mean, imagine a wedding on seed dream. I've never been to one, but I've seen photos and it looks amazing and business meetings and stuff. Um , but my first time on see dream and I think, I think that sums it up. Well, my first time on sea dream, we did the Mediterranean and we disembarked in Civitavecchia and the taxi driver, we had a car that was bringing us into Rome and the taxi driver got into the car, looked at us, looked at, see drain, then looked back at us again and said, and I wish I could do in Italian accent, but he looked, he looked at Saint dream and then turned to us and says, I am thinking that this one, she has the best one. Everyone who was leaving dish one, she'd be leaving happy. And I , he nailed it. He really nailed it. I never met anybody who was unhappy with the sea dream experience. It is, it is very different. Again, not kids, but um, as far as adults or couples can't go wrong. Well, I can tell you I'm a, I'm a , after reading your , uh, uh, your crew's report, which by the way is available on all things, cruise.com . I didn't, I didn't see it yet. Um , and is , uh , even more detailed. I think in some spots we had a chance to talk about today. So I would highly recommend that to , uh , to our listeners. But I know I'm , uh , I'm anxious to try this line out. I've never been, you don't know what you're missing. And the funniest thing is when I was going the first time I was at a , uh , cruise event and I mentioned it to someone and he turned to me, this is like 2001 or whatever. He turned to me and he goes, well , go soon they're not going to last. That's what he said. And now what, 20 years later, they are thriving. So . Well thank you so very much for sharing your experiences with us. It was a very, a very vivid journey for me and again, and you're made me, made me hungry and uh, and really wanting to go, well, I'm going to make my beef stew now. Talk about how the mighty have fallen, you know, cruise travel writer, Judy Clairvaux . Uh , again, you'll find her work at all things through stuck com . Uh, thank you for very much and to our listeners, thank you so much for spending time with us today.